• Tammy Linton
    15
    A client provided this picture stating a contractor used this box to cover up long-term alpha tracks for testing. Has anyone ever seen something like this used. The client wants something to make the devices tamper proof. Does anyone have anything they have used successfully they can recommend? Thank you
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    1021150955 (107K)
  • Erik Simanis
    10
    I have used Tyvek bags from my E-Perm dealer. They are cheap and come in a couple different sizes. They can be glued/taped shut and hung or tacked up as in the picture. I'm told they are "invisible" to radon and my own little test seemed to agree with that. Check with your alpha-track supplier if they are ok with that. Sorry, not a great photo.
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  • David Metzger
    16
    Happy New Year Tammy.
    That cover in your photo looks like a packaging "clam shell" of some sort. Maybe a packaging supplier that does that kind of manufacturing has something similar that would work.
    I use Tyvek envelopes all the time in my multi family applications. Basically the same as those Eric talked about, but I purchase them from Uline and take them to my quick print guy and have him print them and drill a hanger hole that I some times use to suspend them. (See photo) Ofcourse, I'm putting my E-Perms in them so the size is fine. If you were to put the Alpha Track in, seal it up (peal & stick flap on the envelope) then fold it in half and tack it to the wall it might work fine. There are also 2.5" X 3.5" coin Tyvek envelopes that you can get from envelopes.com and perhaps print on the, with a rubber stamp. Tyvek envelopes are great. Tyvek is transparent to air and gasses contained in it. The envelopes seal up nicely and occupants can not open it without damaging the envelope. On retrieval you can easily zip them open with a sharp letter opener. Rad Elec has done significant research regarding its use with E-Perms. I'm sure Rick would be willing to share that info with you. (And as Eric suggested, check with your Alpha Track lab for approval.)
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  • Tammy Linton
    15
    Thanks . The client wants something that can't easily be removed or pulled off the wall. I have suggested the use of the Tyvek envelopes but they wanted something more attached.
  • Fred Ellrott
    5
    Tammy, the cover looks like what we use to cover the thermostat so the it can not be tampered with. It should be available from any HVAC supplier.

    Fred Ellrott
  • Bob Wood
    95
    Tammy you will need client to understand that without some sort of research to prove that devices put in that type of container you cannot really validate results. It is not defensible in my opinion to just logically deduce that it does not interfere with radon levels. If client wants it done this way and will accept results with a caveat that is one thing, but how would it look on the stand when someone is suing you for providing radon results and they got lung cancer.
    It has been my experience that people want a low number and they will sing it from rooftops even if testing does not meet protocols and even when first line in report says this does not meet protocols. the middle line says does not meet protocols and the last line of report says does not meet protocols.
    maybe my clients are different than yours.
  • Tammy Linton
    15
    I totally agree with you Bob. We let our client know this up front. As you said they want a low number. That was the main reason for my post. I wanted to see if anyone had used anything that was successful and didn't interfere with the results. Thanks for responding.
  • Bob Wood
    95
    Tammy I do have product that is now patent pending but we have not finished all of our intercomparison testing yet. If you want more details please email me off list serve
  • Henri Boyea
    107
    You can not make the test tamper-proof.
    If it is movable; someone can move it: if you immobilize it, it can be covered. Where there is a desire to tamper with a test, a way can be found. Covers can be unscrewed; holes can be sealed; bags can be taken down.

    I agree with the point Bob made about defensibility.

    FYI: according to manufacturer DuPont, "Tyvek® HomeWrap® stops air movement through the walls...", and "Tyvek® weather barriers can have a positive impact on energy efficiency by helping to control air and water intrusion in walls."
    So, unless you can point to research that proves that a product designed to block air movement does not have any effect on radon movement, or can point to a recommendation from a test device manufacturer, I would be hesitant to use it.
  • Bruce Decker BGIS
    31
    I agree that anyone can tamper with a device if they set their mind to it. For the tyvek bags I suggest you contact Eperm. If I recall correctly they supply them and have done a comparison. SInce the tyvek is vapour permeable (full of tiny holes to let the water molecules through) Rn will pass through it since Rn is 200 picometers in diameter and water is 275. In this cas it is a diffusive transport through the media.
  • John Reim
    4
    Bruce is correct. The Tyvek is simply a diffusion barrier. Rn levels will not be skewed by using Tyvek bags, IMO. I was curious several years ago and did some side by side studies (with bags and without) and they were all spot on.
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